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Before I start, can we please be civilized? If you disagree with something, it's completely fine just don't start dragging the person and their opinion. First of all we have the org problem. Our 12G buff is extremely underwhelming compared to what the other villages' orgs bring. They both have a lot of CC and in the 7sm's case, the stat buffs are quite literally broken. In the past few days, Sand literally proved that even with lower numbers their puppets can carry them to victory. I've been in 12G and I can assure you that most of us DO NOT want anything that is also BROKEN, we just want something to be able to compete with the other organizations mentioned above since clearly sheer numbers can't be the solution for everything. I'm sure fellow leafies have great ideas for a 12G ability. This screenshot shows how broken PB's puppets are and they're AOE. In maps like DB or KB, they make a HUGE difference. If you actually think this is fair then I don't know what to say at this point tbh. Secondly, our passive. Quite literally the most unreliable passive in the game. Don't get me wrong, WoF definitely saved me a couple of times and I doubt any leafies can say the contrary BUT since it's RnG you literally never know what's going to happen when you get it. It's literally a 5% chance but people still want to say that it's broken and the percentage is actually higher etc. The owner of the game literally said it himself. I think it's unnecessary to explain why WoF is bad at this point. Many leafies AND non leafies have said it. In a week I think I get like a total of 5 WoFs and I try to login every day, that should say a lot. I think it should be like a choice. You get 3 WoFs in a day (resets at daily reset) and basically you get up with 25% of your max HP and 15% of your max chakra. Or another idea: when your HP drops to like 200 HP, you get 50 hp back and a stat buff for 15 seconds. Please feel free to give other ideas too. If I missed something please add it @Ueda Please listen to us

There's no reason for a puppet to have the same impact as a Bandit Boss npc in the battle field. This amount of burst would be manageable if the puppet didnt have a 0 second cooldown, there could be some gap of time between summons. Compared to a meager 10 all stat buff, the difference is astronomical when it comes to 12g's waist cloth .

So can we also talk about how Fan and Pipe need to be mastery locked? :x

Splash damage being able to insta kill multiple people and puppets having no CD is insane. They need to remove the splash damage and have CD. Also their puppets are way too big let's be honest it looks awkward. Sandies can always use their village passive which guarantees a free hit or to sneak by into village to do docs. WoF is a very rare sight that when it does happen you are maplocked, low on health, and have no chakra. WoF needs to have some chakra, no map lock, and percent increase. 12g should have a jutsu like the other villages. They should have a 3-5s immunity jutsu where they can't take damage or give damage. This can be used to block out enemy attacks during raids.

-Will of Fire is mostly useless given that you have no chakra to work with when you get back up. It's unreliable and impractical as it is. -12G has been very underwhelming. I would say that +15 all stats and a granted immunity frame sounds like a plausible suggestion. -Some say Leaf doesn't deserve better buffs due to them having numbers, which is a very flawed argument imo. Factually speaking Leaf has more numbers on average daily basis, but they're more spread around throughout the day. Whereas Sand has an organized NA prime time where their sheers numbers can be way more devastating. On that note Leaf also has more lowbies while the other villages are mostly 50+ Secondly, In any 10v10 fight with Puppet brigades, it's basically as if you're fighting against twice the numbers with puppets that deal 153x3 colliding wave damage. A little +100 fort buff isn't going to save anyone from being one-shotted by a Flicker-Fan combo proceeded by +10x3 Puppet wave barrage Thus the argument of discussing buff in terms of total village numbers makes no sense, judging by how 7SM/PB raid together with their ridiculous buffs together with +10 more village members. --- Another option as some have pointed out is to tone down the buffs of the other Orgs which a good alternative solution as well.

Another fact that makes the puppet so broken is that it essentially has no CD, there have been many instances about putting some CD but still there is anything clear. Is outrageous how they are able to spam it, and wall from it without any consequences. One good nerf from the puppet would be its lack of HP, but since it does not have any CD, then that its basically doing nothing.

TBH it's barely worth using the waist cloth without a jutsu or something to go with

The problem is not 12G being underwhelming. Village buffs shouldn’t be that strong. Therefore PB and 7SM buffs needs to be toned down to the 12G one. Village buffs has to be relevant but not overwhelming.

I kind of see your logic behind this Lumy, but 7sm and puppet have already work behind them, and the only way to make them equal to 12g is to remove their jutsus and just make them a dull stat boost. The easiest path is to provide some sort of jutsu for 12g to work in large scale fights. So far the only blatant exceptions for any sort of nerf was nuibari, and right now would be the puppet 0 CD and the wave boss dmg that it has.

I definitely think that focusing the stats on a certain area, such as simply fortitude and/or chakra, would go a lot further in making the buff feel impactful. Right now its spread too thin.

Totally agree.

seems like rory dont want to nerf 7sm or pb so. let us get our buff

Intro. Flicker is in my opinion, and many others, the most annoying and broken jutsu of this game. It breaks every bits of balance between masteries to a point many change occured due to jutsu pairing way to well with it. Wild slashes, firewall, earth spikes etc. Why does it anihilate the balance? Jutsu's are made with cons. You throw a fire ball but you must cast it. You stun an enemy but you must be in melee range. Imagine not being required to be in melee range to land this last one. Now you have something not working like it was intended to be. It is precisely what Body Flicker does. Makes most of the skill shots free to land and gives ''range'' to jutsu's that were meant to have a very low range. Imagine lighting cutter being instant. We all agree that would be broken right? It needs its cast time to be balanced. Why doesnt that apply to techniques like poison scalpel? Or tai/GF techniques. Why is wind claw being landed without any counter play? Paired with body flicker, those jutsu's are as strong as an instant lighting cutter and it destroy the way they were meant to be used. Why does it go against the way Nin Online is? Nin Online is a MMORPG focused on hard work, skill, and the journey you live with others. The current Body Flicker makes fights easy and creates free combo's that you cannot dodge. It is a total skill killer. Instead of practicing their aiming, people practice their combo allowed by flicker. That's lazy work, yet amazingly rewarding. It makes fights conveniant. From my perspective. Instantly teleporting to your enemy to land a free hit is just unbalanced. It sounds like minato's flying raijin and it annoys me. Combo's made with flicker deals too much damage and its mostly unavoidable. People have become really flicker dependants and it is a really bad thing. Many ''top tier'' players would not be as famous if flicker wasnt there. Please keep this topic about flicker and dont talk about sub punish or village weapons. Those are other problems that requiere an entire post. Lets not get this out of hands. Here you can see someone cancel someone's cast while walking.

As a 12g leader I can say that the buff is really bad compared to what other organizations do, honestly 12g is way below the standards that other organizations are in, the buff at the moment is like a shield that increases its "sustainability" in defense but actually an buff +10 in stats is not enough, honestly in my opinion it is somewhat irrelevant, as the others say, I think that an increase in statistics of +15 points and add a jutsu like 2-3 seconds of the Immunity for me would be fine, I would try to balance things a bit and 12g would have a more specific role in the raids as the 12 guardians needs stay in the front row of attack, also today I was impressed to see how a puppet deleted a partner It almost kill me too but I reacted on time. tbh only the lowbies who don't know 12g are the ones who want to join but when they enter the organization and see reality they are disappointed in their buff.

Make the puppets a jutsu, as quite frankly our "Buff" is useless. We have to unequip & re-equip to spawn the puppets making the +12 fort useless. Add a cooldown after a puppet dies (not too long, unless the HP gets buffed imho.) Fix the multiple hits of the water wave, so it only hits once. Buff the fire dragon jutsu as it's complete garbage (Rng btw). And seeing as some people were complaining, seeing as the puppet floats make it not pop traps.

they don't look strong? cmon rory bless up

This would honestly be great, a focus boost in Fort and chalk would be nice rather then a tiny boost and like 5 extra dmg

Indeed, but I will clarify that by "easy" I mean the most effective and plausible way, the only way to lower the other village buffs down to 12g level is to get rid of their abilities or just remove all buffs. I would not mind that personally, but that would be very negative for the content in the game. It will be much better if the 3 village have something equivalent in terms of power and balance for large scale fights.

For 12g i suggest a 3s or 2s inmunity shield where we can tank dmg and 15 fort or 10. for sure rory wont nerf pb or 7sm so i guess that this would give 12g a reason to equip the towel even when it is bugged(we cant equip long coats or unhooded/hooded cuz for some reason its out and not inside) + sana just forgot (she said it rn) about the summons, slug: oh lord no need to explain and toad compared to panda is .... just this < so lets be honest if u dont want to buff toad or smthing else buff slug @Uedalike bro really like low dmg low hp and it gives only 40 -26 hp only thing i know its too low. my opinion. + i dont want to give ideas about wof y'all can think about it.

Balance village orgs and summons .

U making sense and talking fax

True

I've skimmed this topic over a few times and saw a few notable points. And to be honest... WoF: I think any rational person would agree that WoF is in fact the most underwhelming passive skill in the entirety of the game yet it still hasn't been addressed in full as to why that is. Aside from the unreliable RNG mechanic, You have to wait a full 10 seconds usually before you get back up. Which in all honesty, means nothing when the enemy can just camp your body and place a stationary jutsu such as tags and/or firewalls on top of your body to ensure you die instantly if you were to get back up. The counter argument is that it's supposedly clutch in raids however with the vast amount of crowd control the other villages possess, whether that be from their buff (Grand Puppets and Seven Swordsmen) and/or their village specialties (Wind Tornado's and Stationary Bubbles), you'll find yourself caught up yet again in the chaos of battle. Not to mention you have to also account for the the lag that comes with heavily concentrated maps and while everyone if usually affected, the puppets, in sands case, are still usually still in motion. Even in a 1v1 scenario, the passive literally does nothing but prolong the inevitable. Reviving at low health with no chakra is a bit overkill, you're just flicker or homing away from dying again. Overall: Nin is in an era where the majority of players travel in packs, which surface wise there's nothing wrong with... Excluding the fact leaf doesn't have much to utilize to repel, let alone compete with opposing groups. Other villages will claim that leaf is disorganized, which at times can be true however there isn't much you can do whenever narrow maps are littered with Grand Puppets that all have high damage output, backed with shinobi who all pretty much have a 3 tile wide tornado stun or 3 clams stunning ninja upon entry to camped maps for a barrage of ranged attacks that if you sub, you'll run the risk of being chained into a bubble stun. Leaf has no such utility. Sure, we could go to Sand, Mist, Takumi, wherever and attempt to place a bunch of slugs that barely fulfill the role they were designed to do, to serve as our "stun mechanics" or "heavy damage dealers" at the entrance and see where that gets us. That said, its not so hard to cop kills from leaf by camping Dark Bridge. In fact its such an effective method that's all sand and mist would do. Majority of that isn't skill, its just lack of balance.

I'm not scared to admit it but when I was mist, I was bias about these org buffs. The moment you go against them, you start to realize how foolish it was to defend something that was clearly bs. It goes for most things. I will flat out say that the balance system with this game needs a lot of work. There are more things to point out but I would rather stay on topic. There are clear major differences with all 3 buffs. People usually point out that 12G benefit the most from "10" all stats. That's just "stats" not a giant unlimited puppet summon with a hp boost or a unlimited skill coming from a sword. It's just "stats". It's a struggle. If we're comparing the 3 then you should see a CLEAR difference. For most... Please don't lie. I just want people to keep in mind that we all play different villages and we all bring in the fun/entertainment. If a village doesn't provide that "entertainment" then how will others enjoy the game? Clearly what I'm trying to point out is, people are getting tired of it and losing interest to play the game. Dealing with something that is "clearly" bs makes you lose interest. Around 2019 with no buffs was probably the most enjoyable time of the game. Most new players never experienced it which is sad. Everything felt normal. To this day you can see the major difference and it's not good. But on a curious note, who suggested buffs?

Oh boy balance talks. My favorite lol. I'll add in my two cents for twelve guardians. I think +10 in all stats is underwhelming compared to the other village buffs, but I like how each organization buff is unique. That is interesting and fun to me and I don't want those to change. Right now twelve guardians is a budget akatsuki (12 members -> 10 members -> 75 fewer buff points than akatsuki). 12G has a village to stand behind them, but so do everybody else other than akatsuki. My suggestion is to focus the buff and make the stat points more concentrated. A choice of 5 different sashes between each individual stat. Fort, Chakra, Int, Agi, Str. Each sash gives a +50 buff into that ONE stat. this allows for some very creative builds around the sash for one thing, and makes the buff WAY more useful for each member of the twelve guardians as individuals. Thanks for coming to my ted talk

7SM is a seven man Organization, lets be honest. with there recent nerf they aren't Semi OPED as you make it seem. It's how it's sopposed to be. I'd say PB Puppets is the only problem here that needs fixing from what i see.

Nerfing 7SM and PB puppets would bring balance to the three orgs, 12G doesnt necessarily need a buff, but a fix on the buff for it to be a HP and chakra buff would be fine.

I only see overwhelming buffs right now which shouldn’t be a thing. If they’re toned down there will be nothing to complain about. I just don’t see why buffs are that significant and you asking for your buffs to be even stronger will only make things worst about the unbalance and the complaints.

The easiest path is not necessarily the best path. Village buffs shouldn’t be that strong period.

The Silver Wind

Shirou has joined the competition.

Nyctophilia The Ghost Child

Filling my emergency water pouch for Suiton jutsus.

Aye very good suggestion. 12G is very much in need of a well deserved buff. Literally unplayable otherwise. @Lumy Not a fan of sand at all @SDZ @Black Rain Nor am I a fan of ya two or akat as a whole Disclaimer: In no way was I forced to write this. Like not at all. send help pls