Suggestion for GF balance

[Elegy]

GF = Gentle Fist (if it wasn't made clear)

The community has expressed frustration on fighting the GF mastery multiple times and I'm sure this isn't the first (or the last) post about this. This is however a suggestion offered more as a 'quick fix' that would require minimal work, rather than a complete rework of the class. I'll explain in my opinion why this mastery is so frustrating and unbalanced.

The combo below is the one I'm using as reference as it's where the frustration lies:

GF combo: Flicker -> Palm Bottom -> Mountain Crusher -> Any follow-up

Any flicker combo in the game has one of the two characteristics:

Undodgeable: Jutsu combos like Flicker -> Windclaw for example (before you disagree, yes this can be hard punished, ask any wind user who has fought me)
Unpunishable: Jutsu combos like Flicker -> Fan 3 tile tornado, or Flicker -> poison scalpel

The gentle fist combo mentioned above has both of these characteristics. It is both undodgeable AND unpunishable and is the only combo in the game to have these characteristics. While you may argue 'this is why GF is special' the scaling of damage on the combo with both these characteristics offers an advantage no other mastery even comes close to, which is why it's considered so unbalanced.

 

Proposed solution:

Remove just one of these characteristics (not completely, you would still keep the undodgeable combo, just reduce the damage on it). My suggestion to do this is by changing the hitbox of the Palm bottom skill. Currently Palm bottom has the following hitbox:

The reason this is undodgeable with flicker (as apposed to something like flicker -> tornado) is due to the hitbox of tiles 1 and 5. My suggested change of the hitbox is as follows:

 

Conclusion

I want this to be a fix that is agreeable with current GF players. The playstyle would still be the same, it would just add more opportunities to play the class well as skilled players would still be able to time their flicker to land more damage on their combo, and the overall combo after flicker would still be undodgable, just do less damage. This would open up opportunities for counterplay through good movement and also add for more opportunities to showcase skill on the class.

As this is a suggestion, please keep replies on topic.

 

 

[Elegy]

3 minutes ago, ana primal said:

the issue is gf is useless after the combonerfing the combo in a slight way may risky the mastery. after a combo a gf if ez to kill.

Personally, I disagree with you. I've fought a lot of people in a lot of scenarios, and I mean a LOT. I do not think a GF player is easy to kill in the slightest after their combo, unless you have very good lockdown, which you would kill any player anyway. But thanks for your input. 

[Anna Primal]

1 minute ago, Insidious said:

Personally, I disagree with you. I've fought a lot of people in a lot of scenarios, and I mean a LOT. I do not think a GF player is easy to kill in the slightest after their combo, unless you have very good lockdown, which you would kill any player anyway. But thanks for your input. 

it depend i fought many player many gf i killed many it only matter that was a issue if they had better pin  and fps i fought many eu gf i can handle and chase them with na ones i couldnt but over all as long as you break there sub you can punish them well even at time for more damage then there gf combo .

[Nik]

@Envy Tell em about the GF Usoko days HAHAHA

[Giyu]

21 minutes ago, ana primal said:

it depend i fought many player many gf i killed many it only matter that was a issue if they had better pin  and fps i fought many eu gf i can handle and chase them with na ones i couldnt but over all as long as you break there sub you can punish them well even at time for more damage then there gf combo .

Bullying many level 20's-30's Gf's as a 60 isn't good data @ana primal the suggestion isn't even a nerf and is something that would make you primal specifically do better against Level 40's+ GF. That being said good post @Insidious 

[Anna Primal]

2 hours ago, Giyu said:

Bullying many level 20's-30's Gf's as a 60 isn't good data @ana primal the suggestion isn't even a nerf and is something that would make you primal specifically do better against Level 40's+ GF. That being said good post @Insidious 

i fought many lv +50s you know some of us do hunt solo .

[Elegy]

1 minute ago, Akuma Silberrose said:

somewhat like the idea but if this were ever implemented I'd be hella considered with stuff like pscapel with its 4sec cd poison dot 1sec stun still looming cause yes gf is a bit over the top but heyyyy look at

Sure, make a post about poison scalpel we can discuss it there.

Also what is this weird hijacking of trying to spread another thread

[Magnus]

You want to nerf one jutsu base on the flicker combo?

What is balance for you? /laugh

[Rumaki]

2 minutes ago, Magnus said:

You want to nerf one jutsu base on the flicker combo?

What is balance for you? /laugh

300dmg guaranteed flicker combo, unavoidable, unpredictable 

what is balance for you? /laugh

[Steezo]

I readed just half of the comments but you not consdiering that this matsery already nerfed 3 times in 2020.

Beside that there's barely gf users around cause Tai with tonfas is way more worth it or "deserve a nerf"

I might consider this post more heavily if there's top players gf but sadly all the top players we saw in the recent tourney played tai/med or any elemental carried by pipe.

Don't get me wrong i feel what u saying there Rain kun but as Lumy told u in the first comment the flicker palm crusher is what makes gf to be playable.

if you take it away i don't think we gonna see gf users around anymore they all gonna play Tai or reset to something that worth it in terms of 1v1.

[Yamikami]

Palm Bottom is already dodgeable, you are making it seem like it's a jutsu that will hit 100% of times, which is not true.
It may have a high hit rate but it is not undodgeable like you are presenting it.
The hitbox it has is already the shortest one in the game, making it even smaller is not a way to change this mastery.

[Batman]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:19 AM, Lumy said:

Tbh GF is meant to dominate 1v1s. A nerf like this would make people with higher ping suffer. If there is to be a nerf a buff should be implemented on other jutsus.

But the game cannot be balanced around ping.

 

[Daftzy]

Ive been using GF and ppl have dodged and punished my combos badly.. bubble as example.. super countering, bear trap if played well.. same issue.. isnt undodgeable neither unpunisheable.. it just counters more some masteries and gets countered by others as far as Ive seen.. although if GF gets it 1v1 touched.. Im concerned they balance it adding some PVE skill worth of it.. cz right now its hard to compare GF to any other elemental in terms of killing mobs.. and you all might not be worried about PVE but.. I like to grind.. and GF isnt good at all for it on big mobs.

In all fairness.. ye GF is strong 1v1 but its not undgeable neither unpunisheable.. if anything.. just turn ur eyes to bubble users, and water clone.. the dmg is insane and the CC its next lvl.. so if you touching 1 thing then make sure to touch the other to keep the balance as what balance means.